The Economy

"The guardian elitists know the old order is dying. We are witnessing the end of an epoch, the final collapse of an entire system. We are about to enter in 2001 a time of economic and social dislocation perhaps unprecedented in history. Wars of all kinds will flourish throughout the planet. … [A]mid this suffering mankind will have its best opportunity in 1,000 years to bring about, at long last, a new, just world economic and social order..."

-- Bob Chapman

-- 7/2000 International Forecaster
 
 

After I read the paragraph above, I knew I had to talk to the author. Bob Chapman was born and raised around Boston, and went to school at Northeastern. After several years working in counter-intelligence for the US government, he went into the brokerage business. From 1960 until 1998 he specialised in natural resources and precious metals stocks. For 18 years he had his own firm with 6,000 clients, probably the largest gold and silver stockbroker in the US during those years.

For seven years Bob wrote the Gary Allen Report newsletter with Gary Allen, author of None Dare Call It Conspiracy (with Larry Abraham). After Gary passed away he carried the newsletter on for another four years, but stopped after he retired. Ten years ago he started The International Forecaster newsletter. IF is published twice monthly by US Mail and e-mail. You can subscribe for $59.59 year from Robert Chapman , P. O. Box 510518, Punta Gorda, Fl 33951. (He also takes MasterCard and VISA. Email: <brockton1_magt@hotmail.com, send complete name, address, phone and credit card number with expiration date.)

Bob follows the careers, policies, and intrigues of the oligarchy that rules American and the world. Call them "Insiders," "Elitists," "conspirators," "the New World Order" -- take your choice. Poke fun at "conspiracy theories," if you like, but after you study them for a while, their intertwining control of American finance, business, government, and labour becomes undeniable. I don’t study them because I believe they are more powerful than God. Rather, when you identify an oligarchy that powerful, you can distil some idea of the future from their history, announced policies, and plans. What you read below is a conversation, so you shouldn’t necessarily conclude that The Moneychanger agrees with Mr. Chapman on every point. He kindly made time for this interview on July 20, 2000.

MONEYCHANGER We’ve both been around a long time, and things have not worked out the way we thought they would. In your last newsletter you wrote,

"The global financial crisis is with us and is worsening. The illusions of Greenspan and Summers have no more material value then those of Siegfried and Roy. The reality is that a major struggle is going on to control the world’s natural resources and that is part of the reason the third world is in such conflict. Africa, SE Asia, and the ex-communist bloc countries are being plundered to keep the platform intact, that supports the world financial bubble.

"The US, as the centre of this bubble, is sucking the assets of the entire world into its fulcrum, in a way not seen since the Roman Empire. Between $1 and $2 billion flows each day from the colonies of Europe and Asia in a frantic effort to keep the game going. In turn the disintermediation is destabilising the reluctant donors.

"The guardian elitists know the old order is dying. We are witnessing the end of an epoch, the final collapse of an entire system. We are about to enter in 2001 a time of economic and social dislocation perhaps unprecedented in history. Wars of all kinds will flourish throughout the planet. The contrived conflicts have already begun in Africa, SE Asia, in the Balkans of eastern Europe and in the Caucasus.

"Believe it or not, amid this suffering mankind will have its best opportunity in 1,000 years to bring about, at long last, a new, just world economic and social order, worthy of the dignity of man. We will have the opportunity to cast out the demons which have plagued us for so long. Next year could begin the most exciting and difficult time in history since the coming of Christ. The turmoil created by the elitists in order to implement world power and government will also create the groundwork for revolution. A window of opportunity only seen a few times in each century. You must begin to get mentally and intellectually prepared for this test and to be ready to contribute to bringing back social order and a monetary system based on gold, which precedes us by 6,000 years. The crises we have witnessed were only a warning to what we will shortly face. Soon that turmoil will begin and our good works must destroy evil. The answer is not in the hands of politicians or trans-national business leaders, but within ourselves."

To find people who write doom and gloom newsletters isn’t hard. What’s hard to find is folks who have some vision of a reformation and rebuilding on the other side of the doom and gloom. That’s what caught my eye about this passage.

CHAPMAN What these people are planning, as you know, is world government. To bring that about they need to create financial and social dislocation – chaos. That opens a window of opportunity for us who understand. During that critical time we can effect changes that will stop these people – we’ll call them a "conspiracy."

For some years they have been manipulating every financial market. Gold and silver offer prime examples. It is just as easy for them to manipulate the market downward as it is upward and the market reflects the economy. If they create economic problems, that will force people to reach out to government. Simultaneously conflicts throughout the world divert attention and American troops out of the US.

During this time of trouble and tribulation, that window of opportunity opens. People will ask, "How did this happen to us?" Then people like you and me will explain exactly how it happened. They will remember that they have heard this sort of thing for years without believing it, but they will get an object lesson in how it works. They will go to their governors or congressmen or senators and find that door slammed in their faces. When the only alternative is a soup line, militancy is born within a man. That’s when Americans will question what government has done to them. That in turn leads to militant uprising against the government. An uprising needs arms, and that’s why they so desperately want to take weapons away from the American people. If they fail to confiscate weapons, they can’t do what they want to do. If they do, it is my guess that a third of them will never be turned in, and that is an awful lot of weapons.

Read the gun magazines. Every month in every one someone writes in to say that they will only get his guns out of his cold, dead hands. Perhaps that is bravado, but about a third probably will not turn them in. That suffices to make a difference, because those will be the most informed and militant people. Others will ask them for help, and they will become leaders -- unfortunately, leaders against their own government, which has usurped their freedom.

MONEYCHANGER You and I came to the same conclusions from somewhat different directions. It is interesting that in every area, whether finance, or politics, or government, there is always one thing that’s key, isn’t there? For instance, in the whole realm of politics and government, the key issue is whether or not the people are armed or not. As long as the people are armed, the usurper has to look over his shoulder.

In finance, it is the question of hard money. Do we have a monetary system based on some type of valuable money or do we have a monetary system based on fiat money. All other kinds of inevitabilities flow out of that choice.

You say the guardian elitists know the old order is dying. I think people make a big mistake about the elitists. Because there is a very powerful oligarchy, people conclude they have all power. They don’t, and from what I’ve seen they make big mistakes. One was freeing up markets since 1980. Removing government regulation has made it possible for the tail to wag the dog. When George Soros, for instance, wrecked the British pound back in 1992, he showed that central banks had lost control of their national currencies. So-called free markets (they’re anything but free in fact) had enough power not only to overwhelm any single central bank but any combination of central banks as well. So these oligarchs, or plutocrats, or conspirators, or whatever you want to call don’t have all the power and they make mistakes. Isn’t that correct?

CHAPMAN Yes, and I think they recognise the dangerous openings they have to allow in trying to establish world government. But they know how to re-invent themselves. Unfortunately, as most people they get older they forget about re-invention. Two or three generations over 55 for the most part reject computers and the Internet. These people are failing to re-invent themselves. These oligarchs know how to do that. At the same time, they don’t do everything perfectly, they make mistakes, and they don’t know what the outcome will be

MONEYCHANGER Hence all their emphasis on crisis-management and contingency planning – guarding against an outcome they can’t foresee.

CHAPMAN They know the element of chance exists. But it troubles me that to a great extent they control all government, usually through money. That makes it difficult for us to make any changes at all under the current system. Freedom will continue to degenerate under the guise of free trade and deregulation. A synonym for that is looting.

They have said that they want to finalise world government by 2010. Those intervening years will enable us to tell people why things are happening. We have to report news that appears nowhere else or in very few places.

MONEYCHANGER We must have solutions ready. A great Southern Presbyterian theologian of the last century, R.L. Dabney, wrote an essay about conservatives. These conservatives are no good at all, he said, because they just collapse on the issue at hand and retreat to the next trenches. There they take their stand as they declare, "We’ll never surrender this position!" After a year or so they yield that position and retreat to the next trenches back. They are merely reactionary and have no plan for renewal or reformation.

CHAPMAN Natural and normal human action is "eat, meet, and retreat." Only an extremely disciplined and hard-headed person reaches beyond that. We can’t hope that the public will. Fifteen percent of the world population really make all of the wonderful decisions and discover all of the wonderful things that happen on our planet -- and all of the evil things, for that matter, too. But because of the oligarchy’s present hold on power, it’s impossible to make a change. Since the mid-1960s I’ve contended we will only get a shot at defeating them when they dash for the big prize – world government.

MONEYCHANGER Let me play devil’s advocate. Over the past 65 years the elitists have increasingly perfected their hold on the American economy and the American way of life. In 1865 they created a national government destroyed the old representative republic. They made no other great strides until they spawned the Federal Reserve, then World War I, and then change exploded during the Great Depression. State power – power they control – has grown ever greater. Today if you challenge them, even on an issue where they are weak, they still beat you. It doesn’t matter whether it’s the money issue (which I’ve fought for 15 years and gone to jail over) or the IRS and the income tax, where there is no statute that requires anybody to pay the tax.

CHAPMAN They control the system, and you can only beat them when they make the final dash for total power. With the economy in depression, people going hungry, no gas for their cars, and FEMA running the government, people will ask, "Who did this to me?"

MONEYCHANGER You expect a crash. What do you say to the view of somebody, for instance, like Larry Abraham, who writes in his latest newsletter,

"Your editor has been receiving some flack from those who believe there is a huge crash waiting to happen. These critics have been dragging out every possible scenario, which forebodes a big slam in equities and they top their agreement by saying how naïve I am for believing government statistics on the subject of inflation, but these are the same people that choose to ignore other non-government numbers, including gold prices and dollar valuation. When I raise this, they say the gold price is being manipulated so as not to reflect the real inflation sentiment. Ok, I can buy that, but is the same thing true as it relates to the dollar?….The perpetual all-market bears are saying that the government is manipulating the gold price to keep it low and that they also are allegedly manipulating the currency markets to keep it high and, on top of that, they are manipulating the stock prices with a strike group that rushes in to buy if the New York Stock Exchange starts to fade. If all of the above is true, then it must mean that the insiders that are doing these things are so powerful that nothing in the way of market phenomena can thwart their game plan. If that is true, then why would it make sense to fight their plans in the face of such power? Answer: It wouldn’t and doesn’t."

CHAPMAN That is escape. He’s saying that since there is no answer, let’s join them, but there is not an answer available to him. The answer is, when the opportunity is presented, we have got to after them. Other than that, we don’t stand a chance, they are going to do exactly what they want. Yes, every one of those markets is manipulated. If the people don’t have hope that we can, in the final analysis, win, then there’s no sense in being here.

MONEYCHANGER It may be a retreat to pragmatism, but look at the past 65 years. Since the 1930s folks have been writing books warning that FDR’s inflationary policies would ruin the dollar and there would be a great financial disaster. Well, FDR’s policy did cause a worse depression in 1937 and 1938 . . .

CHAPMAN …which was bailed out by WWII. And we had another recession after the war was over…And the 1950s were no picnic.

MONEYCHANGER Right, but the Big Crash has never come. People forget those intermittent crises and throw back the rebuke that you have been predicting collapse for 65 years and nothing has ever happened. Besides, now we’ve got Allen Greenspan who has so perfected the system that he can manage the greatest financial bubble the world has ever seen down to a soft landing.

CHAPMAN That’s possible. If he does that and there’s no conflict, we will go without a whimper. People like you and me are going to be picked up and incarcerated for disagreeing with the system. They will find a way to get rid of us. Under those circumstances they don’t tolerate dissension. Actually, they usually use a Hegel and Feuerbach approach -- one step forward, two steps back, three steps forward, three steps back, etc. Very often they have created their own adversaries and financed them. The Communist Party, USA, the Socialist Party, the Ku Klux Klan and it goes on and on. Just recently we found out that our government funded Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) and Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) during the 1960s! So, those people behind government, these elitists, cajoled government to do that. Larry evidently thinks that they will manage a silent revolution without any economic "correction." I don’t think they are that smart, as you observed early in the conversation.

MONEYCHANGER Where are the evidences of their failure?

CHAPMAN They have an ongoing failure, but with their control they are able to offset their failures. Example: An election is coming. It is obvious they want G.W. Bush to win. Why? His family stands in the upper ranks of the world’s elitists. For the next 8 years he will carry forward their program for world government better than anybody else.

MONEYCHANGER If you were picking somebody to carry the point for your principles, would you pick G.W. Bush? Can’t they do better than that?

CHAPMAN Right now they are trying to extend the economic boom long enough to get Bush in. How? The boom would have ended some time ago, except they have very slowly brought interest rates back up. The problem that they are supposedly trying to fix isn’t being fixed by interest rates and there’s a reason why. Just since the beginning of the year federal, municipal, and state governments have cut back issuing bonds and bills and notes. Meanwhile the US Treasury has been buying its own paper, over $450 billion worth.

Where did that money go? Into corporate bonds and the stock market. Why did they do that? To keep up the stock market so that everything would look nice for the coming election.

MONEYCHANGER What about evidences that their program is not working? For instance, what about US debt levels? Any rational person knows that you can’t pay all of the profit that you make, plus something else, and still stay in business. Yet businesses and consumers are pushing that point.

CHAPMAN They are already past the point. Credit extension for individuals as well as corporations stands at an all-time high. The balance of payments deficit is 4.3% of GDP. The world is in hock up to its eyeballs, particularly the US. Of the home loans made in the last two years, 27-30% were made with less than 10% down. Approximately 15% put nothing down.

All these things they have done to keep their system going. They result from earlier mistakes. To keep things going, they have had to do things that have worsened the situation. On the other hand, perhaps they foresaw that and perhaps that becomes part and parcel of an engineered correction in the US economy.

MONEYCHANGER Why would they want Bush in office? Despicable as he is, Clinton has performed as their very efficient servant.

CHAPMAN Yes, he’s very good at what he does. He’s done exactly what he’s been told to do and I’m sure Gore would, and even Hillary Clinton, but they are on level 83. The Bush family has been involved in this for 1000 years that I know about.

MONEYCHANGER A thousand years?

CHAPMAN Back to the American Revolution, for openers, through the Prescotts and the Walkers. Who fought at Bunker Hill? Colonel Prescott. These people have been involved in this for centuries and they have risen into the top group. Who runs the thing, it is hard to say, but they are up there. We do know from the London Financial Times that George Bush is a 13th cousin once removed from the Queen Mother of England.

MONEYCHANGER The debt bomb is one place where they are weaker than any place else. But that weakness was inevitable, because their system relies on debt. Without it you can’t advance, and with it you become a slave. What about mortgage debt?

CHAPMAN Horrendous levels. To top it off, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are originating 70-75% of the loans. What backs them up? Derivatives! One failure brings the whole thing crashing down.

They don’t understand basic arithmetic. People under 50 years old have terrible education when it comes to scope. As doctors or attorney or specialists they probably do very well, but they are lost when they step outside their own speciality. Children today can’t even find Croatia on a globe. They think the Congo is somewhere near Alaska.

MONEYCHANGER You mentioned derivatives. Debt has weakened the economy not just in the US but all over the world, but derivatives are another monster. Nobody even knows with certainty how big the derivative bomb is.

CHAPMAN Now it’s around $200 trillion.

MONEYCHANGER Is that the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) figure?

CHAPMAN No, BIS admits to about $100 trillion, an astronomical number itself. Now stop for a minute and think. They know the consequences of what they are doing, so they do make mistakes, but they are not stupid. I think they are doing this deliberately to take the system down -- any time they want.

MONEYCHANGER That is where I think I would disagree with you. I think they consciously work for stability. You say it is being done deliberately to take the system down, while I see it as being done simply to milk the system. From the individual’s standpoint, success begets excess.

CHAPMAN It’s both.

MONEYCHANGER But when you say they are doing it to take the system down, it sounds like you mean they have a specific plan to take it down.

CHAPMAN It serves both interests. On this side of the coin, it takes them where they want to go politically and economically, so they can set up for, as an antithesis, the downside to what they are doing now.

MONEYCHANGER What about their monetary problem and the US dollar? First there is the debt problem that can’t be managed any more. Then the derivative problem. In 1998 Long Term Capital Management managed to pyramid $4 billion dollars into $1.25 trillion dollars worth of derivative exposure. That one hedge fund nearly took down the entire system. Meanwhile the Establishment’s shills – like Alan Greenspan -- assure us the system is not in danger and can’t collapse.

Next comes the monetary problem. The dollar serves as the world’s monetary pillar. The Europeans tried to float the Euro in competition, but so far, that has been an unmitigated disaster. It has sunk from $1.16 at issue to a low of about $.88

CHAPMAN Then it rose back to $.97 and it’s now at $.9065

MONEYCHANGER Meanwhile the dollar has shown astounding strength in the face of the worst balance of payments deficits that we have ever known. Is that not a problem, too?

CHAPMAN Sure it is. The dollar is overvalued to make imports cheap. Those cheap imports have kept inflation down in the US, along with gains in productivity. Now those are waning, although I think they far exceeded the Treasury’s and Federal Reserve’s estimates. That was a gift for them to keep the game going.

This week close to a thousand bankers, mostly from Europe, are meeting in Nassau. Most of these do not belong to the Elite. A contact at that meeting tells me the general tenor is disgruntlement with the United States’ financial imperialism, particularly in regard to taxes and banking and economic transactions outside the US. The idea is loose that if the US continues its bullying, they will stop buying US stocks and bonds and start repatriating funds from the US. Of course, the US has representatives there, incognito, and they are listening, too.

MONEYCHANGER That constitutes a private revolution by lower-level bankers against American economic imperialism. Americans don’t understand how much the rest of the world hates the US for its arrogance and oppression.

CHAPMAN They don’t hate Americans, they hate the American government. People throughout the world, particularly in Europe, realise that this sort of elitism has been going on for centuries. They just live with it, but as the formation of the European Union and the Euro show, 75-80% of Europeans oppose these schemes. Still, they have it pressed upon them by politicians bought and paid for by the elitists behind the scenes. I would never have got this information about what’s going on in the Bahamas this week had I not lived there.

MONEYCHANGER This comes from the business community?

CHAPMAN Something like this could upset their plans, with a vengeance

MONEYCHANGER What happened last fall with the so-called Washington Agreement, when a number of central banks (including the Fed) agreed that they would not sell or lease more than 1,200 tonnes a year into the gold market? I interpreted that as a falling out between the European Elite on one side and the American and British Elites on the other.

CHAPMAN It was one of two things. Either it showed a disagreement about how they should go about proceeding toward their goal of world government or it was simple dialectics. That means they decided to make a show as if there were some opposition within their own camp. That false opposition softens and sidetracks, then misinforms and kills dissension.

MONEYCHANGER It creates more confusion?

CHAPMAN Exactly. The government would call it disinformation.

MONEYCHANGER It draws off the genuine opposition.

We mentioned these points of their economic weakness, points that threaten the genuine systemic collapse that Greenspan calls "cascading cross defaults." First is the whole debt structure, second is the derivatives structure, third is the weakness of the dollar and the problem in gold. Do you agree with Frank Veneroso and GATA that there really is a huge short over the market?

CHAPMAN Absolutely, and it glares so bright you would have to be blind to miss it. Most of the public doesn’t know much about it, nor do they care, as long as their mutual funds don’t go down. The investment banking and brokerage community doesn’t care because the market is doing well for them. They don’t care who bribes whom or who controls what as long as they make plenty of money.

The Fed began experimentally manipulating both the gold and silver markets in 1986. In those days Barrick was just cranking up, selling forward in the gold market to "hedge their position". Barrick now is nothing but a hedge fund. If some congressman could convince other congressmen that the gold carry scam should be investigated, he’d become a national hero, because he might intercept and prevent the collapse of an overextended financial system.

MONEYCHANGER The gold market seems to be a case where their greed has culminated. They created a system where the Insiders only needed to back up the truck and haul away free money. Now their scam threatens to boomerang on them.

The gold carry trade ballooned to dangerous instability. I don’t think it is unreasonable to conclude that European central bankers, even those people above them who pull their strings, looked at what was going on and were afraid that the Americans & Brits had built a perilous bubble that threatened to take everybody down. To prevent that, they acted.

CHAPMAN I also suspect that central banks that have lent gold have been settling for cash (dollars or euros) back, instead of gold. I doubt central banks have the gold positions they claim officially. I don’t think the US Treasury has been doing that. They may have been part and parcel of the carry trade by guaranteeing positions through the Exchange Stabilisation Fund. That’s how they are leading the manipulation, but they haven’t been sellers of gold, or lost gold to bad leases, or even received dollars in lieu of loaned gold, but others have.

There’s no question that the gold short position lies somewhere between 10,000 and 30,000 tonnes (322 to 965 million ounces). Pick a middle figure of 15,000 tonnes. Producing some 2,300 tonnes (74 million ounces) a year, that would be about 6.5 years’ gold production. In silver’s case, within a year and a half, maybe as long as two years, all the known silver in the world will be gone. It has been used.

MONEYCHANGER But Bob, consider the position this places us in. Obviously I do not oppose investments in gold and silver, but neither have gone anywhere for years. Silver has been basically stayed flat for over a decade. In 1993 when I wrote Silver Bonanza for Jim Blanchard, silver looked poised to take off. The deficits had already been accruing for four years. Since then silver hasn’t done anything, except for that one spike from the Warren Buffet purchases.

CHAPMAN Let’s put it this way. If one can accept that the world economy will correct after this next US election and if one can accept that will occasion monetary and economic dislocation, then it’s both plausible and possible that the derivatives bomb in those two metals could blow up in the shorts’ face. Sure, sixteen years have passed since gold and silver have seen any action. Over the next two to three years, starting this coming year, we could see gold and silver go through the roof.

MONEYCHANGER "Through the roof" means what?

CHAPMAN Silver at $15-30 and $600 plus gold, at a minimum. Those are conservative figures. When I was buying silver stocks during the early 1960s everybody thought I was insane. Well, I made one heck of a lot of money for my clients, as well as myself. Then began the events after 1976, probably the greatest market ever in gold and silver. Both metals rose much higher than I thought they should, but that’s the way markets are. People overdo things. Ample precedent for large, quick movements exists in the metals markets.

MONEYCHANGER And all the ingredients for an explosion are in place – huge shorts and enormous industrial demand in silver. Gold really depends on potential investment demand, because it takes investment demand to push gold. So just be patient with the gold and silver?

CHAPMAN Just be patient, because you are not putting 100% of your assets in it. I recommend only 20%.

MONEYCHANGER Where are you going to put the rest of it?

CHAPMAN I tell my subscribers to be 5% in gold and silver bullion & collectible coins, 15% in gold and silver stocks, 15% (for the time being, in oil and gas stocks), and the rest in government paper and money market funds, provided the funds use no derivatives. I also look for special situations. Remain extremely liquid. If you buy a stock at 4 and it goes to 10, then you sell it. You just keep on taking profits and you cut your losses.

MONEYCHANGER You would stay out of mutual funds and the broad stock market now?

CHAPMAN Generally, yes. The general public will never know what hit them. Their fund will drop from 45 back to 20. It might even do worse.

MONEYCHANGER We talked about financial weaknesses – debt, derivatives, the dollar and the situation in gold and silver, but there’s a political weakness, too. Over the last 50 years America has become the world’s policeman and now we have become a new Roman Empire. Our troops are the Roman legions sent in to crush the barbarians.

CHAPMAN "Barbarians" equals anyone who disagrees with the elitists.

MONEYCHANGER Right. Croats are no nicer than Serbs when it comes to killing people. Then again, the Serbs are not an especially uncivilised people, and for eight centuries they have stood in the gap for Western Christendom. For the US to invade Kosovo in favour of the Albanians, against the Serbs on the Serbs own national territory, constitutes unbelievable arrogance and aggression. That declares national sovereignty no longer exists, only our imperium and we intend to enforce it.

CHAPMAN Exactly. If insurrection against the Elitists occurred in America while American troops are engaged overseas, then they would use foreign troops here. That avoids the worry that 80% of American soldiers won’t shoot at their own people. Troops from some other country would quell any disturbances.

MONEYCHANGER Do you really think that will happen?

CHAPMAN Absolutely. If it gets that far, that will happen. Of course, that really gives us a better target.

MONEYCHANGER About 10 or 15 years ago, an Israeli military scientist, Martin Van Creveldt wrote The Transformation of War. In that book he argued that gigantic national armies (such as those in the Gulf War) are obsolete. Vietnam showed they can’t be used effectively against a determined guerrilla foe, and certainly not against an urban guerrilla foe. Wars of the future, he predicted, would be low-intensity conflicts.

CHAPMAN That’s what we are getting.

MONEYCHANGER Current US military theory and discussions in, for example, Foreign Affairs, argue that the elitists at least believe that is the trend of the future.

CHAPMAN Well, it’s identification and suppression. They don’t necessarily have to win, they just have to teach them a lesson.

MONEYCHANGER Right, but can they teach them a lesson? There appears to be a shift in the long-term trend in human affairs away from centralisation of power and toward local power.

CHAPMAN Among the people, but not among the elitists. They want to disrupt that trend, but they can’t succeed because they can’t both destroy and occupy. In Serbia, for example, the US bombed and bombed with only limited success. Milosevic will still be there for a long time. However, the whole show diverted thinking and, it suppressed Serbia to demonstrate American power. It also set another precedent for deploying American and other troops all over the world.

MONEYCHANGER But no empire can’t do that everywhere or in many places simultaneously.

CHAPMAN I’m counting on that. Let them get their hands full.

MONEYCHANGER Does this tendency to identify locally and demand power locally -- the tendency against centralisation -- really exist? Does it act as a potent political and social opposition to the elitists' plans?

CHAPMAN Yes, and it will break through in finality somewhere. Right now it is happening more in Europe than anywhere else, particularly in places like Austria and Spain and even Italy. There are major moves in governments to the more conservative or rightist philosophy. The people who run the European Union are aghast that a decentralist in a conservative party won in Austria. Their attitude was, "How dare they!" If you are not a socialist or communist, you are not allowed to hold office in Europe.

For 30, 40, 50 years we sent people all over the world "fighting communism" and yet socialism and communism are the instruments of the elitists today. Of course they financed them in the first place, but the American public doesn’t know that.

MONEYCHANGER When you go outside of the US or pick up a foreign newspaper what a completely different view of the world there is, and how many more details you get about really important affairs! In the US an incestuous news stream starts with the New York Times, Time and Newsweek. Three, four, five days later it appears throughout the country throughout the country.

CHAPMAN I read twelve publications a day in several languages.

MONEYCHANGER Do you really believe we are about to enter in to the time of the greatest opportunities for reform that we have seen in the last 2000 years?

CHAPMAN Well just think -- a world with virtually no taxes. Do you realise how free and open societies could be, how they could grow without the encumbrance of taxation?

MONEYCHANGER Do you foresee in this period the possible break-up of these great national empires, like, for instance, the US?

CHAPMAN Not in the US, but it could happen in other places. If anything, Canada might want to join us and I’m sure Mexico would. In Europe you have different cultural differences and that is why the European Union will never work. So I don’t see too many break-ups. I think, tribally, things are pretty well set.

MONEYCHANGER But there is the possibility of returning social and political power to the people and localities, as opposed to that great centralisation of power seen for the last 400 years?

CHAPMAN Yes I do, but I see the public paying a horrendous price.

MONEYCHANGER You foresee a great slam-up sometime after the election?

CHAPMAN Yes, over the next ten years. These people attempted to install world government in 1970 and they failed. Again in 1990 they wanted to do it, and again they failed failure. They could fail again.

MONEYCHANGER But it’s not just simply their failure that we’re after, it’s turning them back.

CHAPMAN They expect failures along the way because it takes time for them to implement all the legislation and regulation needed to suppress all disagreement. I think they have reached that point, particularly with FEMA. The president needs only to declare a national emergency and FEMA takes over the country. All you congressmen go home.

Eighty percent of the people have never even heard of FEMA. Only 22% of Americans read publications and almost half of America is functionally illiterate.

MONEYCHANGER Well, those are better numbers than I expected! Bob, thanks very much for your time. [End interview]
 

Back to the previous page